[Nasional-e] Interview: East Timorese President Xanana Gusmao

[Holy Uncle]

http://worldpress.org/Asia/743.cfm

East Timor has often been called one of the United Nations?greatest 
successes. But it was back in 1975, in Resolution 384, that the Security 
Council first called for East Timor’s independence. Today, a lot of people 
are questioning the United Nations?ability to enforce its resolutions [for 
example,] with regard to Iraq or Israel. I’d be interested in hearing your 
views on the United Nations and East Timor.

X.G.: You must remember that in 1975 it was the Cold War. ...You didn’t turn 
too much to the United Nations. ...At least we didn’t have any resolution 
against our right to self-determination.

So when people say the United Nations?involvement in East Timor was a huge 
success, do you agree with that?

I can agree. The presence of the United Nations there brought the East 
Timorese people a sense of security, of stability. But I must say that 
without the commitment of East Timorese people, without patience, without 
their willingness to forget war, to not take revenge, without their 
commitment to peace [this wouldn’t have happened]. We cannot say that 
[success is due] only [to] the United Nations presence there. It has also 
internal factors. You can see in other places, the United Nations didn’t 
succeed because internally [there were] factions, groups, who didn’t want to 
accept each other. And we know [that in some places] the United Nations was 
simply expelled from the country. And in other places—I just read a few days 
ago that the entering president of Afghanistan was the target of a killing 
attempt. This is why we cannot say the success was only because the United 
Nations was there, but [also because of] the commitment of our people to 
respect the process.



in and have an International Criminal Tribunal for East Timor. As I 
understand it, you originally were opposed to the idea of a [international] 
tribunal...

I never opposed [the U.N. setting up an international tribunal]. I always 
stated that it was not my priority. And it was when I was an ordinary 
citizen. Now as president, unfortunately as president, I must say the same: 
It is not our priority. If we talk about an international tribunal, it is 
not an East Timorese tribunal. What I can say is that we are committed to 
trying East Timorese [nationals] in our national environment, in our 
country. If you talk about an international tribunal, I would say leave it 
to the international community, to the international organization, to do the 
job. Because, you know, we came from the ashes of a brutal destruction. Our 
people are demanding good life standards, good health, education, 
infrastructure, agriculture—and we must respond to this. I believe that if 
we talk about violence, killings... We’ll be able to forget the past if we 
provide social justice and improve their lives. If not, people will keep 
talking about justice, justice, justice. But what is the meaning of 
independence? Is it to achieve justice—or social justice? It is about 
measuring our priorities. Among East Timorese, our priority is 
reconciliation. Some people say justice must be first—before reconciliation. 
Maybe in other countries. But in our country, reconciliation must be the 
first step. After people forgive each other, we can be sure that the justice 
that we do will be without any sentiments of revenge or hatred. It is why we 
are taking very seriously the problem of reconciliation and justice in order 
to build a new mentality, a new generation, a new society—because we don’t 
want [this to happen again] in five years. Our people are willing to 
eradicate hatred, vengeance. Which is why I was never opposed to an 
international tribunal, I only stated it was not my priority. We believe 
that if the international community can do [it], yes, of course [they 
should]. We don’t believe so much that the Indonesian government will 
succeed in the process that they are doing. We were very disappointed in the 
first stage of the tribunal. Because Jakarta keeps saying it was only the 
beginning, we’d like to wait for the final stage. If they respond to the 
demands of the international community, of course there will not be a 
necessity to have an international tribunal. If not, we believe that the 
international community can make the right decision [whether that] is the 
international tribunal or [something else].

You have said that part of your role as president is to be the eyes and ears 
of the East Timorese people. Is the position you have been explaining [for 
social justice and reconciliation] the sentiment of the East Timorese people 
generally? Do people want to put that period of your history behind them and 
move on or...?

I believe so. I would like to explain to you how I would like to be the eyes 
and ears and mouth of our people. We are the very newest democracy in the 
world. During our struggle, we tried to understand the weaknesses and 
successes of independent countries. And we saw that many countries around 
the world, even after being independent for 50 or 60 years, they are not 
democratic. Independence didn’t yet mean something good to the people. That 
is why, right in the beginning, I must have the role of watching the bosses. 
We are committed to strengthening our democracy. We are committed to having 
good governance. We are committed to combating corruption. We are committed 
to making justice a fundamental [part of our] democracy. We are committed to 
building a strong civil society.... This is why, right in the beginning, I 
must have the capacity to tell people we are doing wrong or we are doing 
right, we are doing what we can or we are not doing what we can do. [What I 
have been describing] is the perception of our people because we tried to 
put the people’s vision in the development plan of our government. We set up 
a mechanism of consultation with our people and our people gave [their] 
vision. And the vision was education for our people; health care to 
everybody; good infrastructure; agriculture; [creating] mechanisms [where] 
people [are] able to produce, to sell, to get benefits from their products; 
and [creating a] strong civil society; an anti-corruption policy; good 
governance; clean governance. It was the will of our people. It was the 
vision of our people.

My next question is about the United States and its war on terrorism and its 
funding of the Indonesian military. A number of human rights groups and 
organizations have written to the U.S. Congress and asked them not to renew 
funding to the Indonesian military, funding that had been cut off because 
Indonesia hadn’t fulfilled its responsibilities toward East Timor. As I 
understand it now, the East Timorese government is not opposed to the 
funding of the Indonesian military. Is that correct?

The human rights organizations have the right to have their opinion.... We 
don’t have any problem if they renew links with some kind of pressure that 
Indonesia must answer to the demands of the international community.... I 
think it is fine if they renew with some kind of conditions, some kind of 
pressure. I believe it could work.

East Timor ratified the Rome Treaty for the International Criminal Court in 
August. Then East Timor agreed to give U.S. troops in East Timor immunity 
from prosecution before the Criminal Court... What was the thinking behind 
those two decisions?

Our government agrees with this agreement. I believe that the thinking in 
East Timor is that we will not have any American soldiers there [in East 
Timor, so it is really a moot point]....

Another question is about the role of women in East Timorese society. I know 
domestic violence is reported to be a big problem. I know your wife is 
active in women’s rights [issues]. What is the government’s plan for 
bettering the position of women in your society?

It is a process like women’s emancipation. We are a society of an 
underdeveloped country. We need to make a change of mentality in everything. 
One of the issues is domestic violence. ...Economically we have to improve 
the opportunities of women, [so they are] not so dependent on men. It is not 
only a question of raising the issue, of education—but of changes in the 
economic and social life of our people. We are spending more money on 
education. With education, we believe our people will be able to understand 
all these problems, and will participate to [solve] problems like domestic 
violence. We cannot change society in one day. ...It is a process, a social, 
political process.


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